Well Lion Irc,
After having watched you waffling on with crap for days now, I will now get serious. I will be touching on interactions you have had with others on this thread and will quote the specific comments of yours I would like to respond to. It took me so long as I was still counting the levels of stupid in each and every one of your replies. I took time off of the counting to type this.
My reply to you is written, based not on MY belief in your god model, but with YOUR belief of in mind. I am of the position and at least there IS evidence to support my position, being that: your god is nothing more than an also ran dodgy model at best, of previous god models conjured by the minds of human beings who could not even begin to understand how nature works, so assumed, as they weren’t doing it, there had to be some “higher person/being /entity (or pluralized) were making it all happen. That was the ONLY explanation they could fathom, which is understandable considering the ages in which these people lived. There is however no excuse for your blind stupidity in this day and age.
Your arguements "for" your belief system are nothing short of asinine and rarely if ever, lucid. Certainly, your vocabulary may be better than many theists I have interacted with, however I reckon yours comes from you assuming the thesaurus is your friend. Lion, Roget’s is not your friend and like me, probably thinks you are a boarish, deluded dickwad. A little tip, certain synonyms only work IN CONTEXT. Also, sure you may be throwing out there some, what YOU deem to be plausible arguement, accompanied by references to Onfray; perhaps assuming bringing an atheist into your argument, it would somehow be swaying.
No, no it wasn’t. FAIL,Lion.
If you want to talk etymology though sweetcakes, then bring it. I would enjoy discussing origins of language and subsequent interpretation of, with you, especially when it comes to biblical "meanings" and texts. I do hope however you are more than familiar with ancient hebrew, aramaic, greek, Arabic, Persian/Farsi and latin et al to aid in being a viable discussion/debate. I however refuse to put up with your diversionary crap so come prepared… KNOW your shit.
No further obfuscations on your part, ok Lion? You either put up or shut the fuck up. I suffer fools for only so long and the clock is already ticking over quickly as to you.
Secondly; My post of the fellow with fingers in ears ‘la la la’-ing, has shown to be on the mark, simply because dicks like you are an easy read. Rather than directly answer a question posed to you, you have avoided or at least sidestepped the issues, usually coming back with some lame-arsed diversionary tactic so as to avoid the ACTUAL issues raised. The stamp collector/non stamp collector one is a perfect case in point and frankly, unless you see your own "faith" as nothing more than a hobby and a money making hobby at that, I fail to see the relevance of that example on your part. I do appreciate it perhaps was a feeble attempt on your part to make some point that in your eyes, atheists have no right to have an opinion and perhaps have no knowledge as to theism. How you could possibly come to that conclusion is beyond me, because the fact of the matter is, many an atheist NOW, were at one point, theists. I am one such example. I was an ordained minister for years , after YEARS at theology college, and prior to becoming a minister was a Christian counselor. I am no longer a christian however, because I took the “seek and ye shall find” quite literally; in heart, mind, history and geography, which made me realise that Christianity was nothing more than mythology and folklore and the Jesus Christ character you personally worship, is merely a figment of the “believers” mind, due to embellished story telling, and just an also ran messianic figure based on prior belief systems, all of which, again, mythology or folklore. Would you like me to elaborate Lion?
Even if atheists were never religious, practicing theists, I reckon they would be more learned in the theory of multiple theologies including yours, than you are in the one you personally practice because of the practice, you have a blinkered mentality. Atheists tend to investigate as much as possible in an earnest search for truth and facts. You however are happy with “thinking” that jesus loves you this you know, because the bible tells you so. DONE DEAL.
I BTW have seen NONE of the atheists on here claiming expertise in theism per se, but everyone, regardless of what you think has a right to have opinion on something that is unfortunately for the most of us, a given, as “being” in the countries we live in, is a considered “norm” that we have to deal with even as non believers. I suppose the difference between people like you and atheists, is that you allow irrational fear to literally run your life, where as atheists, don’t.
Now if you would like to go 1-1, head-head in a debate with me over Christianity, (or any theism for that matter) then BRING IT. Even though I make no claims of expertise on the topic, I have a gut feeling I would wipe the floor with you on all counts, in reference to both biblical and also extra-biblical research and even life experience relating to the topic at hand.
.
Anyway, to get onto your "points":
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I shall argue that those countless gods are (mis)interpretations, albeit sincere, of Monotheistic divinity.
Then argue away but make it valid, rather than mere conjecture, and please, cite sources of your material. I for one like to read the original content and intent, rather than just your paraphrased synopsis.
Until now though, all I have seen you do is give insipid little statements, promising much but delivering squat.
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The near universality of religion/theism in diverse types does not surprise me. Four blind men all feeling different parts of an elephant and perceiving a different type of animal.
And in your blindness(which isn’t even a physical ail), you’d probably think it a tree trunk or garden hose over an animal at all. The issue is to “feel” ALL parts of the animal to make a viable, reasoned and knowledgable determination of what it actually IS, over what you assume it to be from a quick and very narrow feel up, or perhaps not even feeling it up; just going by what you have been TOLD it is and you take that “on faith”. Irony is, it ain’t no tree trunk, dippy!! It’s an elephant.
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There are serious differences between Islam. Judaism and Christianity but if you put them all side by side the may as well be identical in comparison with atheism
Granted there has been much bastardisation of Judism in Christianity and in Islam, the identical between all three though is the original god model of judaism. Just the “prophets” change. How THAT can possibly be seen as identical in comparison with atheism? I don’t know. Based on what? Care to elaborate? And if so, again, cite your sources.
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PS - Jake, I see you are sticking with your "God made me do it" defense argument for stealing and murder in Jakes Shack - the one you UNSELFISHLY built for your kids and supplied enough food to sustain 6 billion of us - yeah! Really selfish.
Hmm..what part of jakes analogy clearly mirroring bible god and his “personality and demeanour” don’t you get?. Just as OT god did, jake built his shack and the conditions within, to PLEASE HIMSELF and of course it was “perfect to suit him.. YOUR model did the same. He then picked his “favourites” (prophets) to pass on messages to the other kids, which all conflict with the message of the “right way” to get dads approval. As a result,of course, there is infighting AND outfighting; there is pillage, there is hate and there is murder because each and every sub-sect, want to prove their love and devotion to daddy, based on the message said to be sent from daddy. It is jake (AKA BIBLE GOD) who in his alleged “perfection” created this discontent, by setting up all the boundaries and goalposts in the first place.
How many religious wars would you like me to cite Lion to show this case in point. How many biblical references would you like me to cite, to also show that the bible god model “created” said conditions, and to show you just how accurate, even if watered DOWN, jakes depiction is?
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but as a parent I want my child to learn how to do it themself. I dont want to FORCE my child to do it a certain way because I said so. I hope many would agree with me that teaching and showing by example are signs of a loving parent.
The thing is though Lion, the example the bible god “leads with” is one of an absolute arsehole of a parent and does not instill, work with or show the example you gave above. I truly hope Lion that in reality you don’t have ANY children, because if you do and you follow the biblical “god example” AS how a parent should be, I would report you to DOCS(as you claim to be in AUST) in a fucking heartbeat as your bible god’s way is one of abuse and negligence.
As a parent, I don’t need to allow my kids to SUFFER in manners you deem “ok” and part and parcel of some fucking bible god “lesson” for them to know and appreciate happiness. People don’t need to experience the mass extremes you deem are necessary, to understand life highs/lows – good/bad. I don’t need to give them to constantly play to my ego, and I certainly wouldn’t ever threaten them with death, nor would I ever consider disowning them, should they not want to “follow my lead”. Your god’s love, is a conditional one and purely on “his” terms, whether as the OT character, or the passive aggressive NT characterization.
All you are doing is give some half-arsed excuse in an attempt to justify the actions, or should I say lack of, of your chosen god model; the one remember, YOU believe exists.
In the bible, you believe to be THE TRUTH, your god is directly responsible (by his own hand if you will) for the deaths of over 371,186 people directly and orders/commands another 1,862,265 people murdered. ALL these people, alleged (by you) to be his children he supposedly “loves”, who did not do it “his way” .
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But I often do find myself in discussions with atheists, agnostics, people of little or no faith because I am interested in (maybe challenged by) why they think the way they do. And I would have to say, I mostly respond rather than instigate.
You are so full of shit lion, your eyes MUST be brown. You instigated this thread and as it shows by other sites you tend to frequent (atheist sites), you also instigate there. So cut the crap you deluded tronk.
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I am glad you mentioned Jesus healing sick people. Now I can respond and rightfully claim that I am not proselytizing (shame on me!) Jesus did these things (partly) to show that being sick and dying are temporary conditions which God can and WILL remedy. I simply point out to Lapsed Lurker that singling out only one type of pain/suffering/death and asking God …’why this?” becomes ridiculous.
The above is conjecture Lion. There is no evidence to support that bible jesus LIVED let alone healed anyone unless you assume the stories of the bible are considered evidence. Heads up dippy, it isn’t.
Secondly, I see LL’s point, which time and time again you have skirted around, to be sound. Your argument however is not sound, despite you changing the goalposts to suit yourself. Seriously what “greater good” or “greater happiness” can come from the suffering of innocent children? Elaborate as to what purpose YOU ASSUME such pain and suffering serves in the scheme of life.
I did have more written but as it seems you have run away, my points will never be responded to. If however anyone else wants me to post the rest of my prepared reply, just let me know and I will be more than happy to provide it for the readers.
*shrug*
PS. Any other theists wanting to go head to head in debate.. I am up for it so just ask.
